PSA

"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock) 10/22/2015 at 06:47 • Filed to: None

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If you ever change brakes on a car with an automatic handbrake, it needs a while to relearn so you may not have a handbrake until you’ve driven a few miles and cycled it a few times. Good thing I parked it in gear just in case.

Cé hé sin > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 06:54

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More proof that these things are answers in search of a question.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Cé hé sin 10/22/2015 at 06:58

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I’m convinced the only reason they exist is because they’re quicker to fit on a production line than running cable for a traditional handbrake.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Cé hé sin 10/22/2015 at 07:11

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What’s the other proof?

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 07:12

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I bet that’s detailed in the service manual

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 10/22/2015 at 07:17

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Most likely, I don’t have one of those though.

Eberle-Hills-Cop > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 07:20

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I never knew this was a thing. Is it still a hand brake at that point? Finger brake? garbage?

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Eberle-Hills-Cop 10/22/2015 at 07:21

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Parking brake I guess. I hate it.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 10/22/2015 at 07:27

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They offer no features that a manual handbrake doesn’t have. Not to mention they remove the possibility of using it in an emergency if the brakes go.

jariten1781 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 07:30

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Saves weight as well, especially compared to cars that have aux drums for their e-brake. Also, some (not all) are controlled by the ECU so if they’re actuated while driving you get 4 wheel braking with ABS. And, some are tied in to the rest of the car’s systems...if the parking pawl breaks and it detects the car moving while the gear selector is in P it’ll auto-apply.

Still don’t like them personally, but there’s legit advantages (and disadvantages, of course) to them.

Svend > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 07:31

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These are on the new Superb which I’m not looking forward to.

Friend had it on her Astra and though she got on with it, her husband hated the damned thing and was always either forgetting how to take it off or simply putting it on again thinking he was taking it off.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Svend 10/22/2015 at 07:33

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I can use it properly I just don’t like it at all. We’ll probably have to get used to them though since more and more cars have them now.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > jariten1781 10/22/2015 at 07:38

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Ours just locks the back wheels if it’s used while driving, that is an older (9 year old) car though. Ours auto applies if you stop the engine and get out too, but I’ve never forgotten my handbrake anyways. It might be helpful for some though.

McMike > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 08:02

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using it in an emergency

Some cars link it to the ABS, and if you pull press it at speed, it will apply some percentage of brake pressure to slow the car down.

(PDF) page 24

Dynamic emergency stop

If the brake pedal loses its function or becomes blocked, the vehicle can be braked heavily by means of the dynamic emergency stop function. The emergency stop function is also available when the ignition is switched off. By pressing and holding the electromechanical parking brake button, braking of the moving vehicle is carried out at a deceleration rate of approx. 6 m/s.

An acoustic warning signal is triggered and the brake lights are activated. The dynamic emergency stop function is carried out via hydraulic brake pressure generation at all 4 wheels if the vehicle speed is greater than 7km/h . The braking manoeuvre is controlled depending on the driving situation by the ABS/ESP function. In this way, stability of the vehicle is assured during braking.

If the electromechanical parking brake button is pressed when the vehicle is travelling at less than 7 km/h, the parking brake is applied electromechanically (see parking brake function).

I still like mechanical parking brakes, though.....

Ash78, voting early and often > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 08:27

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Multiple designers have stated outright that it’s a space saving concern above all. I have always hated them. To me, a backup system like a handbrake/e-brake should remain “analog” and not be susceptible to electrical failures.

Party-vi > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 08:45

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They take up less space, weigh less, are simpler to operate, and have no need for cables running the length of the car to the rear brakes.

It seems that a large percentage of drivers never used their manual parking brakes in the past because they were too difficult to operate.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 08:49

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This is one thing in the car world I’m totally indifferent on. I don’t care how it works, as long as it stops my car from resting on the transmission on a hill.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Party-vi 10/22/2015 at 09:15

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The fact they issue these people licenses is why we cannot have nice things and deal with unconscionable traffic.

Party-vi > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 10/22/2015 at 09:17

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My wife doesn’t have the upper arm strength to operate her parking brake (console-mounted type). Good to know she’s one of those people.

That being said, I am not a fan of her driving.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 09:26

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Yeah, you haven’t presented any tangible actual proof that is better for the customer. And when I say customer, I’m not talking about the overwhelming minority who does e-brake turns/drifts, but the majority who use their cars as appliances

The “emergency brake” (pro tip, it isn’t. It’s a parking brake only) isn’t meant really for stopping you in the event of hydraulic brake failure.

As Party-vi noted, those are actual advantages considered by OEMs when making such a decision. Basically just like DBW Throttle Bodies where they are simpler to install in less time than a throttle cable attached to the firewall. So I’m waiting an actual proof from you why they are better when the conventional cables.

You have a button, and a servo motor actuating the rear caliper to hold. In the old system, you have a cable, an adjuster, a grommet in the body to seal where the cable goes through the body and onto the rear wheel area, a brake handle (or foot lever in many SUVs), and in many cases a full drum brake setup on the inside of the rear rotor (sometimes it’s a lever on the caliper only just like the new electric servo setup). That’s a whole lot of weight compared to the newer systems.

Cost is also becoming less overall in terms of tact time at the factory and components cost as the tech marches on and becomes cheaper and better

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/22/2015 at 09:37

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Our company Ford Explorer has that same terrain switch for diffrent traction situations, why don’t they just use a good traction control software (like subaru)? The stupid ford won’t engage the rear wheels unless you put it in snow or dirt/rock mode. The Explorer (2015 model) also has a foot actuated parking brake that I never use, the Outback has an electronic parking brake that I use all the time, but it doesn’t actuate when you are moving, I’ve tried.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Party-vi 10/22/2015 at 09:56

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Here’s the thing: If you don't have the strength to operate a parking brake (hand or foot), you don’t have the strength to herd over a ton of death hurtling along at high speeds among innocent bystanders.

Party-vi > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 10/22/2015 at 13:11

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Apparently you can, considering she drives without issue all the time.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > McMike 10/22/2015 at 16:49

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That’s all great provided the lack of braking isn’t caused by say, a blown out line that leaks out most of the brake fluid. Which has happened to me once and I’m thankful I had that mechanical back up.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Party-vi 10/22/2015 at 16:50

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That may be the case in countries where most cars are automatic, but here everyone uses the handbrake properly.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Ash78, voting early and often 10/22/2015 at 16:51

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I agree, I have used a handbrake in an emergency and was glad it was there.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 10/22/2015 at 16:52

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I understand why they do it and accept that technology moves on and what not, I just personally want to retain a handbrake as often as possible. I’ve had to use one in an emergency before and would like to have that safety net as long as possible.